I like the underlying principle, but I am wary of the graphics - I think it will turn off potential players when they can get much better looking games out there. Also, the Kickstarter page looks really bad und uninviting unfortunately. I do not want to be a bad seer, but I really do not see this succeeding.
I mentioned this in a previous post, but these visuals are an early rough sketch only to give a general impression of the game. These will evolve greatly over the course of development. That is why we have a kickstarter so we can get the money to more fully develop this concept.
I am interested in knowing what is "bad and uninviting" with the KS page?
I would like to follow up by saying that KS is an "all or nothing" venture. Any money you pledge is returned to you if the campaign fails. If it is succeeds then you have helped to make the project a reality!
I know about the quirks of Kickstarter from the Boardgame world :) That is also where I saw stellar KS pages (that attract people and help them feel at home, supporting their desire to pledge) and where I saw "bland" KS pages, that are scarce with info and feel "hasty" in preparation. Not saying that you do not have enough info there, but somehow I do not have the desire to explore the game more just from that page. Maybe it is the combination of the not-finished graphics, no clear separation of different sections of the text etc. But maybe it is just me and my 2c...
People pointing out on the graphic being the issue here. Guys listen to them! I know it is not finished and this is a real map. But this is not how the commanders used a map. There was a foil on which they draw the situational perspective and the colours were pretty standard red and blue. Thus the visibility was much better to what is presented here. I'm more then happy to the feedback to my questions on the previous post about the mechanics. But graphic and interface are equally important. If I can't bloody see my units how can I properly manage them ;) Chris Adamus
Hey the camo works! ;) Yes, the point is heard and taken, and I happen to agree with you. The units became difficult to see once I converted them to a screenshot. So we are in the process of trying to address this.
Oh, and I forgot to add that I apologize if I sounded like I was trying to ignore the feedback about the visuals. Believe me, we are listening to the constructive feedback we are getting...which is why we are on trying to develop some better visuals!
And Jozef, at this point I am somewhat limited on what I can do to the KS page, but I appreciate the feedback. I will certainly take this in to consideration however I can.
I can help with some basic graphics (even just for promotional purposes) free of charge. This just begs for some nice Tiger tank for the cover :) I could also see if I could commit to some counters. This could be optional (add-on, mod, whatever you call it) for more graphical flavour (not everyone likes nato counters). Nothing to fancy though but the GMT counters are quitenice. Chris Adamus
Agreed about the NATO symbols, and I was wanting to include different options for player preference...though I was wanting to leave it moddable for the entire community to play around with! I also agree about the GMT counters, and some others are quite pleasing to look at.
OK Chris, sign up for the current forum and we will discuss further. https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/combat-operations-overlord-game-group
And for those rolling their eyes about the google group, we are preparing to migrate to our own forum. But more on that later when are prepared to fully talk about it.
Yeah the backer pledges do seem strange. Also I feel $100 to get access to the Beta is rather steep, unless your not to bothered about a lot of beta testers.
I've mentioned the KS and linked to it on Tactical Wargames:)
Oh and also saying Multi Player in the headline and not also mentioning it has single player mode aswell is a big mistake aswell I feel. The multiplayer aspect should be a major feature you show off in a feature list but calling it a multiplayer game will mean all the single player gamers will not other reading any further. Plus Multiplayer gamers also want their games to be single player aswell just in case in the future it become shard to find another player.
Honestly I think the headline alone will mean your losing potential backers straight away.
You are correct, the $60 level is the first mention of the game. You are not the only one mentioning this, and in hindsight I would have done this differently. However, I cannot change this reward tier (because I tried yesterday) since that reward tier has backers.
The $60 level gets you the game and 1 DLC. The $35 level gets you a credit of 1 DLC if/when you purchase the base game. Here is why we did it that way: we needed to have multiple small $$ reward tiers for those that may only want to support the cause without caring about getting game content, or that may not want to fully commit. So the $35 level will get you something tangible in terms of game content (for those that want it), it will allow you a greater voice over the course of game development (with voting access). So again if you pledge $60 you get the base game and a DLC.
Jason, thank you for posting at Tactical Wargames! Passing the word is critical to success.
Multiplayer-KS limited the number of characters. I primarily envision the game as multiplayer, however I fully understand your point! I will see if I can somehow tweak it because CO includes the option for single player.
OK, I made single player explicit in the short blurb (I ended up having the space no problem), and added to the features list. THANK YOU for pointing that out!
All of the above is unfortunately why you FIRST make a massive campaign for a game, before even thinking about Kickstarter, and only when you have a huge fanbase (i.e. you can be quite sure they will back the game), you start preparing the Kickstarter and all the "hype" around it. Building it up so that the people are more and more eager to back your game and the anticipation grows steadily, blowing up with kickstarter and later updates. THAT, is a successful Kickstarter. I would seriously consider cancelling it at this moment, working on the game further, gathering followers and after a few months - maybe - you can think about a new Kickstarter. Honestly, you will save yourself a lot of frustration and bad rep - and bad rep is the one thing that cannot easily be recovered. Cancelling a premature Kickstarter is nothing special nowadays and the folk can even see something positive in it - and your determination to make it even better.
Jozef, I appreciate the feedback, and your points are well taken. We may very well come to your conclusion, but we are not there yet. I don't want to quit prematurely either!
Unfortunately had to agree with Jozef. Better to cancel now than later. The KS should be the last step for the hype building and it needs to be special. PS. I'll sign up in the next following days to the forum. Chris Adamus
Florian, these are not actual in-game screen shots, these are mockups. These mock-ups were done using 3rd party game software to illustrate how the concept is going to work. We are currently working on some basic in-game shots, but I'm not sure how much better they will appear. Game design has far outpaced game programming. So we are doing a Kickstarter to pay for our programming costs.
And i think thats a problem. Going to Kickstarter with only a game concept and saying "give us the money and we make the game" maybe works for developers/companys who have already proven that they can produce good products. I think it will not work for you... The Mockups look like command-ops to me. I think you will run into way more problems then you have anticipated during the actually production of even a semi-working alpha version, let alone a fully-functional v1.0 release.
If for example Panther Games or Battlefront would go to Kickstarter with this "game idea" i would have faith it will ultimately turn out to be a working software some time in the feature, in you case im not convinced.
Sorry if i sound rude, i wish you all the best luck but i just think it will not work this way. I hope im wrong.
I was interested so i just made a pledge, thanks to you JC! I REALLY like the idea of being able to play out the battles in different programs/IRL. I have a decent sized warhammer 40k Death Korps of Krieg army so using them as a german army corps sounds amazing!
I like the underlying principle, but I am wary of the graphics - I think it will turn off potential players when they can get much better looking games out there. Also, the Kickstarter page looks really bad und uninviting unfortunately. I do not want to be a bad seer, but I really do not see this succeeding.
ReplyDeleteI mentioned this in a previous post, but these visuals are an early rough sketch only to give a general impression of the game. These will evolve greatly over the course of development. That is why we have a kickstarter so we can get the money to more fully develop this concept.
ReplyDeleteI am interested in knowing what is "bad and uninviting" with the KS page?
I would like to follow up by saying that KS is an "all or nothing" venture. Any money you pledge is returned to you if the campaign fails. If it is succeeds then you have helped to make the project a reality!
ReplyDeleteHi Choppin,
ReplyDeleteI know about the quirks of Kickstarter from the Boardgame world :) That is also where I saw stellar KS pages (that attract people and help them feel at home, supporting their desire to pledge) and where I saw "bland" KS pages, that are scarce with info and feel "hasty" in preparation. Not saying that you do not have enough info there, but somehow I do not have the desire to explore the game more just from that page. Maybe it is the combination of the not-finished graphics, no clear separation of different sections of the text etc. But maybe it is just me and my 2c...
People pointing out on the graphic being the issue here. Guys listen to them! I know it is not finished and this is a real map. But this is not how the commanders used a map. There was a foil on which they draw the situational perspective and the colours were pretty standard red and blue. Thus the visibility was much better to what is presented here.
ReplyDeleteI'm more then happy to the feedback to my questions on the previous post about the mechanics. But graphic and interface are equally important. If I can't bloody see my units how can I properly manage them ;)
Chris Adamus
Hey the camo works! ;) Yes, the point is heard and taken, and I happen to agree with you. The units became difficult to see once I converted them to a screenshot. So we are in the process of trying to address this.
ReplyDeleteOh, and I forgot to add that I apologize if I sounded like I was trying to ignore the feedback about the visuals. Believe me, we are listening to the constructive feedback we are getting...which is why we are on trying to develop some better visuals!
ReplyDeleteAnd Jozef, at this point I am somewhat limited on what I can do to the KS page, but I appreciate the feedback. I will certainly take this in to consideration however I can.
I can help with some basic graphics (even just for promotional purposes) free of charge.
ReplyDeleteThis just begs for some nice Tiger tank for the cover :)
I could also see if I could commit to some counters. This could be optional (add-on, mod, whatever you call it) for more graphical flavour (not everyone likes nato counters). Nothing to fancy though but the GMT counters are quitenice.
Chris Adamus
Agreed about the NATO symbols, and I was wanting to include different options for player preference...though I was wanting to leave it moddable for the entire community to play around with! I also agree about the GMT counters, and some others are quite pleasing to look at.
ReplyDeleteOK Chris, sign up for the current forum and we will discuss further.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/combat-operations-overlord-game-group
And for those rolling their eyes about the google group, we are preparing to migrate to our own forum. But more on that later when are prepared to fully talk about it.
Have a serious issue with the backer pledges. AT what level do you get the game as it doesn't make sense at he moment.
ReplyDeleteAT $35 you get DLC yet it seems you need to back $60 to get the game as that's the first mention of the game and actually getting a copy.
Yeah the backer pledges do seem strange. Also I feel $100 to get access to the Beta is rather steep, unless your not to bothered about a lot of beta testers.
ReplyDeleteI've mentioned the KS and linked to it on Tactical Wargames:)
Oh and also saying Multi Player in the headline and not also mentioning it has single player mode aswell is a big mistake aswell I feel. The multiplayer aspect should be a major feature you show off in a feature list but calling it a multiplayer game will mean all the single player gamers will not other reading any further. Plus Multiplayer gamers also want their games to be single player aswell just in case in the future it become shard to find another player.
ReplyDeleteHonestly I think the headline alone will mean your losing potential backers straight away.
You are correct, the $60 level is the first mention of the game. You are not the only one mentioning this, and in hindsight I would have done this differently. However, I cannot change this reward tier (because I tried yesterday) since that reward tier has backers.
ReplyDeleteThe $60 level gets you the game and 1 DLC. The $35 level gets you a credit of 1 DLC if/when you purchase the base game. Here is why we did it that way: we needed to have multiple small $$ reward tiers for those that may only want to support the cause without caring about getting game content, or that may not want to fully commit. So the $35 level will get you something tangible in terms of game content (for those that want it), it will allow you a greater voice over the course of game development (with voting access). So again if you pledge $60 you get the base game and a DLC.
Jason, thank you for posting at Tactical Wargames! Passing the word is critical to success.
Multiplayer-KS limited the number of characters. I primarily envision the game as multiplayer, however I fully understand your point! I will see if I can somehow tweak it because CO includes the option for single player.
OK, I made single player explicit in the short blurb (I ended up having the space no problem), and added to the features list. THANK YOU for pointing that out!
ReplyDeleteAll of the above is unfortunately why you FIRST make a massive campaign for a game, before even thinking about Kickstarter, and only when you have a huge fanbase (i.e. you can be quite sure they will back the game), you start preparing the Kickstarter and all the "hype" around it. Building it up so that the people are more and more eager to back your game and the anticipation grows steadily, blowing up with kickstarter and later updates. THAT, is a successful Kickstarter.
ReplyDeleteI would seriously consider cancelling it at this moment, working on the game further, gathering followers and after a few months - maybe - you can think about a new Kickstarter. Honestly, you will save yourself a lot of frustration and bad rep - and bad rep is the one thing that cannot easily be recovered. Cancelling a premature Kickstarter is nothing special nowadays and the folk can even see something positive in it - and your determination to make it even better.
Jozef,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the feedback, and your points are well taken. We may very well come to your conclusion, but we are not there yet. I don't want to quit prematurely either!
I agree with Jozef
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately had to agree with Jozef. Better to cancel now than later.
ReplyDeleteThe KS should be the last step for the hype building and it needs to be special.
PS. I'll sign up in the next following days to the forum.
Chris Adamus
Are these actual ingame screenshots or just mockups done in photoshop ?
ReplyDeleteChris, yes by all means please sign up!
ReplyDeleteFlorian, these are not actual in-game screen shots, these are mockups. These mock-ups were done using 3rd party game software to illustrate how the concept is going to work. We are currently working on some basic in-game shots, but I'm not sure how much better they will appear. Game design has far outpaced game programming. So we are doing a Kickstarter to pay for our programming costs.
And i think thats a problem.
ReplyDeleteGoing to Kickstarter with only a game concept and saying "give us the money and we make the game" maybe works for developers/companys who have already proven that they can produce good products. I think it will not work for you...
The Mockups look like command-ops to me.
I think you will run into way more problems then you have anticipated during the actually production of even a semi-working alpha version, let alone a fully-functional v1.0 release.
If for example Panther Games or Battlefront would go to Kickstarter with this "game idea" i would have faith it will ultimately turn out to be a working software some time in the feature, in you case im not convinced.
Sorry if i sound rude, i wish you all the best luck but i just think it will not work this way. I hope im wrong.
Hey thanks for sharing this!
ReplyDeleteI was interested so i just made a pledge, thanks to you JC! I REALLY like the idea of being able to play out the battles in different programs/IRL. I have a decent sized warhammer 40k Death Korps of Krieg army so using them as a german army corps sounds amazing!