tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post4397960070418902890..comments2024-03-23T06:17:06.909-04:00Comments on Real and Simulated Wars: Panzer Battles Kursk, The Southern Flank - AARJChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00770262108283393835noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-65264401582817505442014-03-19T15:49:38.715-04:002014-03-19T15:49:38.715-04:00This seems to have all the features of the Campaig...This seems to have all the features of the Campaign Series, but with worse graphics. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05765456597196296265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-88039849742753555022014-03-16T13:40:06.407-04:002014-03-16T13:40:06.407-04:00Any comments about historical accuracy? Do the sc...Any comments about historical accuracy? Do the scenarios tend to deliver reasonably historical results if one uses the same approach as the actual combatants?<br /><br />It worries me that nearly the exact same combat algorithms are being used in these games which cover everything from Napoleonics to Modern. I played this, then went back to Napoleon Jena-Auerstadt, and I have to tell you that it felt extremely similar in terms of combat results and even tactics. <br /><br />Quantifying combat power via weapons capability plus morale is not enough. You need some kind of assessment of proficiency. You can have high morale with low proficiency (think of 1941 Russian troops who refused to give up long past the point of reason), but in this system they are muddled together. <br /><br />If Tiller wants to keep pumping out these re-skinned versions of Battlefield: Waterloo, I guess that's fine. But this is my last purchase until he makes an effort to sit down and re-examine the theoretical basis of his games.<br /><br />LnL Heroes of Stalingrad does a much better job of simulating squad-level tactics than Squad Battles ever did. Similarly, SSG's Decisive Battles were far more interesting than any of the Panzer Campaigns, and delivered much more historical results while teaching the right operational lessons.<br /><br />Lastly, the sophistication of something like Command Ops far outstrips Panzer Battles in terms of modeling Order delays, Command and Control, and the fog of war.<br /><br />If someone can demonstrate that this game actually rewards historically-effective tactics and delivers realistic results, then I'll happily accept that. <br /><br />But none of the reviews or first impressions seem to bother with that. They seem entirely focused on the small iterative improvements in the artwork, rather than examining the shaky theoretical framework and combat algorithms that underlay all of these games - all of which deliver nothing more than "Panzerblitz" (mid-70's) levels of sophistication, and completely ignore critical areas that subsequent games have done a great job of elucidating.<br />Erichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17438621463266503313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-10609783887231611082014-03-13T08:02:07.727-04:002014-03-13T08:02:07.727-04:00Nipe's book as well as Valeriy Zamulin's w...Nipe's book as well as Valeriy Zamulin's were key inspirations for many of the scenarios. If you have Nipe's book it's fun to see if you can associate the passage with the scenario.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00946447001665955520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-11869978656802683162014-03-10T15:16:33.655-04:002014-03-10T15:16:33.655-04:00I recently read George Nipe's excellent book a...I recently read George Nipe's excellent book about the Southern flank of Kursk, "Blood, Steel, and Myth". I can't recommend it highly enough. Extremely well written, and does an amazing job of busting the many long lived myths of the battle, and specifically about Prokhorovka, "the biggest tank battle ever".<br /><br /><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Steel-Myth-II-SS-Panzer-Korps-Prochorowka/dp/0974838942" rel="nofollow">Link to Amazon</a>Johannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-56310135057415272172014-03-03T18:20:49.887-05:002014-03-03T18:20:49.887-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Doug Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14782846735047080442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-76298669327431322202014-03-02T18:56:26.325-05:002014-03-02T18:56:26.325-05:00While this may be an improvement on previous games...While this may be an improvement on previous games, the art is still terrible. Windows 3.1 popups? Come on...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-5147998883998209422014-03-01T00:45:45.866-05:002014-03-01T00:45:45.866-05:00Chris, yes there is an editor for the components, ...Chris, yes there is an editor for the components, ie playing pieces, an editor for the order of battle and an editor for the scenarios.<br /><br />As far as the map, there is an editor that allows you to create a smaller map from the maps included in game. There is no bespoke map editor included though.<br /><br />Doug, thanks for the kind comments. Both Mike Avanzini and I went a bit crazy with what was included in the package. The challenge now is maintaining this standard going forward! The graphics improvement was well over due and like a new girlfriend it's the 'look' that counts!<br /><br />DavidAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00946447001665955520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-90124070702143511472014-02-28T23:34:19.182-05:002014-02-28T23:34:19.182-05:00I am very, very impressed with this. The map and c...I am very, very impressed with this. The map and counter art is a great improvement. Game scale is very enjoyable. The wealth of background material and documentation is a real treat!Doug Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14782846735047080442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-10444172623295985802014-02-28T17:01:22.856-05:002014-02-28T17:01:22.856-05:00Purchased and downloading. Between this and the Gr...Purchased and downloading. Between this and the Grenada demo, I suspect I'm set for the weekend!Doug Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14782846735047080442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-15840753156904409492014-02-28T13:52:38.108-05:002014-02-28T13:52:38.108-05:00Hi JC. Great AAR. Is there an editor? And is ther...Hi JC. Great AAR. Is there an editor? And is there a map builder?Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08330448155557009702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-30174890833914943432014-02-28T09:36:28.795-05:002014-02-28T09:36:28.795-05:00Remind me not to play JC, I think he'd kick my...Remind me not to play JC, I think he'd kick my butt :)<br /><br />I stand appropriately corrected.<br /><br />Spotting has lots of factors including distance from the spotter number of men/vehicles used etc.<br /><br />DavidAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00946447001665955520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-9569498414490200042014-02-28T08:35:14.519-05:002014-02-28T08:35:14.519-05:00Hi David,
RE: recon. I know! :)
At the scenario ...Hi David,<br /><br />RE: recon. I know! :)<br /><br />At the scenario start. The only recon unit (and able to perform recon spotting) available for schwerpunkt units (1st and 2nd PzGr Battalions) is a motorcycle company located 1.25 km back from the FLOT. Their mobility is very limited (500 meters per turn) and I thought it was not even worth the shot trying to "recon spot" with them from such afar. <br /><br />To my amazement, I found while playing other scenario that these guys can recon spot fine from such a distance. I wonder if, with a bit of luck, almost every Russian position could have been spotted at the crest of Hill 258.2.<br /><br />But it was already too late for the game I reported here, and I don't like trying scenarios multiple times to look myself clever in an AAR. :)<br /><br />Cheers,<br />JChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00770262108283393835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-2466937770843172562014-02-28T08:16:52.253-05:002014-02-28T08:16:52.253-05:00Jason/Wodin:
I never said the company was the mai...Jason/Wodin:<br /><br />I never said the company was the main unit. I may have said it was the "typical" size of unit.<br /><br />Off course I realize that I can combine/breakdown a company into platoons. I didn't cover the combine/breakdown ability in this AAR because after all, mission-enemy-time-troops considerations didn't demand a swarm of platoons roaming in the farm lands. I would love to be proved wrong in this assessment, but so far I see no reason to breakdown my grenadier companies just for the sake of it (i.e. if the mission doesn't demand it).<br /><br />The only exception was the southern flank of the 1st PzGr Battalion during turn 5. But they did hold fine, those guys.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br /><br /><br />JChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00770262108283393835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-73126670519217556682014-02-28T07:06:20.871-05:002014-02-28T07:06:20.871-05:00Never mind. I read your previous post. At Compan...Never mind. I read your previous post. At Company level, it is between Panzer Campaigns and Campaign Series. Scale is larger than campaign series. Campaign series is more board-game like since it deals with steps instead of specific number of men.<br /><br />Do the non-arty units actually shoot across hexes like Campaign Series or only adjacent like Panzer Campaigns.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06994348090945988216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-70158208384403398072014-02-28T07:02:05.638-05:002014-02-28T07:02:05.638-05:00Can you elaborate on the scale? How is it differe...Can you elaborate on the scale? How is it different from Panzer Campaigns or Campaign Series?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06994348090945988216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-20100369747874424222014-02-28T04:22:27.332-05:002014-02-28T04:22:27.332-05:00Hi,
Its David here. Its better to typify that the...Hi,<br /><br />Its David here. Its better to typify that there is no 'main' or perfect unit in game. Each formation size has advantages & disadvantages. Companies are key for doing what Jay Cee was doing in the AAR. You need firepower to overwhelm the defenders quickly. That said you can have a disaster like the minefield incident where the density modifier amplified the losses. It's all about trade-offs.<br /><br />The one thing I didn't see Jay Cee do was use his recon assets well. There is an important order called 'Recon Spotting'. There are hills overlooking the farmland and a quick recon spot would have helped identify enemy positions and ensure the artillery was hitting 'known' targets. Recon spotting gives you a chance to see units that are concealed but in line of sight. This is some of the subtlety in the game. I promise you, you will never have enough engineers or recon assets.<br /><br />DavidAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00946447001665955520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6055491912637469469.post-23566129638908121832014-02-28T03:50:39.297-05:002014-02-28T03:50:39.297-05:00Been speaking to David Freer and you do realise th...Been speaking to David Freer and you do realise the main unit is a Platoon. I think you should only combine into Coy's rarely due to to many bodies in a hex. I know some scenarios have a fair few combined units at the start but I think your supposed to break them down. This is one area that confuses me with PB. As I don't really know when combining a unit to coy scale is wise. I'd rather you coudln't do it..and the only other thing I'd have loved is if the game had been WEGO.Jason Rimmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11422897378271126789noreply@blogger.com